This weekend’s survey was suggested by a reader. The topic is dating. Who, how and when; and what about celibacy?
I think a great way to discuss this is for us to share our own stories.
Those of us who are married may want to share how we met, pursued and finally got hitched with our spouses. Those who are not married, you can share your current situation, standards and hopes.
Note: Each person has a unique situation and leading from the Lord. This is a chance for us all to share what the Lord has spoken to us personally and how we have or are walking it out. But please don’t confess ungodly relationships or give any negative details. Since this could be a touchy subject please keep in mind that I reserve the right to edit your comments, although I highly doubt I will need to.
Note 2: if you have a question you’d like to have discussed on FTSA let me know via my contact page.
Ronni said:
I personally think the whole concept of “dating” is horrid. I never like the concept even as a teenager. If we taught our kids to be respectful and that entering into this type of relationship is serious, and that it is more of a courtship (after they have gotten to know a person enough to know if they would even want to be spouse material) there wouldn’t be as many issues with dating as there are. It has become a free for all of sorts even with our “Christian” youth. They don’t look any different from their counterparts. Going out with friends in a group is not courtship… it is friendship… it is a chance to deepen relationships… when a pair decides to “pair off” and “date” it should be with an understanding that this is a trial to see if this person is to be a spouse or not. Nothing else… so many people date one person after another out of loneliness that God alone can fill. They short change themselves on intimacy with God, and their future spouse.
Off my soapbox.
Oh and did I follow this… yeah, pretty much. It served me well.
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 3:18 am
Matthew Berry said:
My wife, Elisa, and I first met around 2003 when she came to Kansas City for a Fire in the Night Internship at IHOP. I thought she was a nice girl, but totally not my “type”.
A few years later in 2005, we reconnected around a setting of prayer and worship. We immediately hit it off. What was significant during this time was that we connected at a spiritual level that I had never experienced in the past with other girls.
I remember sitting in my parent’s living room thinking to myself in amazement, “Who IS this girl?”
This girl — my friends — became my wife. I won’t go into all the details in this comment, but it’s a pretty amazing story.
As far as DATING goes, it’s funny that you should ask such a question. I was talking to a guy in the IHOP cafe last night about dating and marriage.
The topic that came up was “submission to authority”.
As guys, we need to respect and honor the spiritual authority that a girl’s dad has over her. As my wife says, “The entrance to a girl’s heart should be guarded by her dad.”
I think it’s time for the chivalry of ages past to be reborn. Guys, there is honor in submitting yourself to the authority of a girl’s dad and including him in on the relationship. [Not to say he'll go out on dates with you, but he should be included in the process of winning that girl's heart.]
Gotta run to the next session at the Leadership Summit. Maybe I’ll add more to this later. What do you guys/girls think about this?
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 7:39 am
Amanda said:
When I was a teenager, I was pretty turned off by the whole dating scene. Trying to have a short term romantic relationship seemed foolish since I wasn’t ready to be married.
Now, I’m 25 - an ‘adult’ - and I am re-thinking my thoughts on dating. It was a lot easier when my motto was, “I don’t date.” But somehow that doesn’t seem like such a good idea now, unless celibacy is my goal.
So now my view is, if this is someone I think I could potentially marry, then dating is a good idea. But no casual dating - that’s stupid. And it’s not that I have to know before I start a more serious relationship (a pretty unrealistic expectation), but if there are major differences, things that I know I could never live with, than we should just stick to being friends.
Above all, I know that God is in control of my life and I am trusting Him to bring the perfect person at the perfect time.
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 7:53 am
Benjamin Wood said:
I notice that no one has told a story about how they met their life long mate. So I will be the first to.
If you don’t know, I am married to the most beautiful woman in the world. I know many people think that about their wives. Well mine is the actual truth. She was voted most beautiful woman in the world. I joke. We met in KC, she was an intern and I was a leader, note this happens in like all the internships. One of the leaders falls in love with one of the interns. It is easy to do when you are both pursuing Jesus with all your hearts. We fell in love and waited the remainder of the internship to pursue anything.
She then moved back to New York (upstate), I followed. It is here where we knew that it was the real deal. For two years we traveled an hour and a half to see each other for the weekends. She was in school to be a nurse and I was working full time as a Chef in a prominent Italian Restaurant.
One of the funny points about us not meeting until KC is that through High School she and I had the same friends and we never met. I went to her High School in 7th Grade and then left to go to a different school in 8th grade all the while still keeping in contact with the friends I had made in the other school. Went to many of the other schools functions but still never met until KC.
We dated for a year before I proposed and then were engaged for another year before we tied the knot. I am forever grateful for meeting her when I did. She changed my life and I am so glad she did.
So I encourage dating and a book by Joshua Harris called “Boy Meets Girl” found here - joshharris.com We read it while dating and it put a new urgency in our hearts to make sure we did it right. All within the eyes of the Lord.
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 9:02 am
Anna said:
Okay, leave it to me to throw a little kink in the conversation, but I think there is a fear of screwing this up, especially in our community at IHOP, that puts a lot of weight on single people. I’ve seen girls freak out about whether or not to go to coffee with a guy because they’re unsure if they would ever want to marry him. Here are a couple of my personal views:
1) You do not need three prophetic confirmations before you decide to go on a first date.
2) Your decision for not going on a second date need be for no other reason than, “I don’t want to”.
3) After being spotted at IHOP alone in conversation with someone from the oposite gender, do not feel pressured by the 75 inescapable questions of, “are you two engaged?!”
4) It is okay to take longer than a few months to decide if you want to marry someone. It is okay to take longer than a year. You are not a freak.
5) If you are single over the age of 25, yea 30, you are not doomed to a life of celibacy you never wanted. God sometimes matures you and sets you in place as a believer before you build a life with another such mature believer.
6) You may now stop freaking out. God is not going to have you marry the guy who likes you but you find generally unattractive and specifically uninteresting… he did have that dream that you were to be his wife, though…
7) Love is a choice EVERY TIME. Be led by desire. What do you want? You’re not going to get it wrong and end up with the wrong person. Pursue God with all your heart, and don’t be afraid to go to coffee with the guy who asked to treat you last week… if you want to.
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 9:19 am
Benjamin Wood said:
Wow, Anna, that was an amazing comment. You mean if you are in IHOP you don’t need to meet and get married all in a weeks span of time? In the words of Elaine Benice “GET OUT!” Just messing around but it was so good for you to say that.
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 9:35 am
Ryan Couch said:
Neither my wife or I dated in college. I was “pursuing Jesus only” which was really only a pseudo-Godly excuse to mutilate your own heart whenever it even felt like even thinking someone was cute or interesting. God alone, and no other! Too bad you can’t repent of your God-given longings, only fulfilling them falsely. More self-righteous than anything, and led to more internal struggles because I “dammed up” the “wellspring of life” by thinking all that proceeded from there ungodly.
Therefore, when we met we both had (and needed) some incredible confirmation that only later did we share with each other. We met on a mission trip to Germany, sat next to each other on a 9-hour plane-ride getting to know each other. And by God’s grace helping my extreme lack of courage, I asked her two months later (after “randomly” bumping into each other over and over at the local coffee shop) if I could pursue a deeper relationship with her for the purpose of one day marrying her. I was terrified as those words came off my lips, but she said “Yeah, sounds great.” and then I made her repeat what I had said back to me just to make sure she heard right.
Only then, did we start hanging out one on one to dinner. Only AFTER we had solidified WHY we were doing that, not just dancing around the issue, messing with each other’s heart. 7 Months later we were engaged, 7 months after that married. Almost 3 years later now, and more and more in love with Jesus and each other, praise God!
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 11:17 am
Ruth said:
Anna, you said “Love is a choice EVERY TIME. Be led by desire. What do you want? You’re not going to get it wrong and end up with the wrong person.”
what do you mean?
I’m single. What i have to deal with primarily right now is people telling me they think i should have a boyfriend. family, friends, they all wanna go and find that perfect guy for me. it doesn’t even matter (to them) if he’s a christian or not. I should have one right now or i can soon go and live in a home with the really old people. that’s how things seem to be in my culture at times..
I mean, it seems like the persons around me are way more concerned about me than I am. I’m 24 and I do not need to worry about a thing. If God wants me to marry, heck I don’t even care if i’m 35…but i’ll wait for the right person.
it’s like you said Anna: God sometimes matures you and sets you in place as a believer before you build a life with another such mature believer.
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Idhrendur said:
Well, I’m currently single. I’ve been that way for about 2.5 years now. If that alone doesn’t make it obvious, I’m not so much into casual dating. It also doesn’t help that at my school, I was typically three or more years older than everyone else I spent time with . The closest available women in age were/are five or more years younger. Which just seemed creepy to me.
Then last week I discovered that a friend who is six years younger than me has a crush on me. So now I’ve been rethinking the creepiness factor (as I called it). The consensus seems to be that my views were wrong (at least in basing things solely on age, rather than just figuring out a girl’s maturity level). And so I guess I’m currently confused. But who wanted life to be predictable anways?
Enough about me. To answer the questions at the begining: whoever God placed there, carefully, and when the timing is correct. Not that those answers help on the practical basis, but there you go!
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Ducky said:
Anna, I like your advice. I’m not released into the dating stage yet, but I am glad to know I don’t have to freak out.
Speaking of not dating yet … I have the desire to be pursued, but I know I am not ready for a relationship; I am yet not able to give anything back. O wise commenters, how would you carry your heart in that type of season?
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Jo said:
Anna– I totally agree! A long time ago I agreed in my heart that I wanted to go more of the route of “courtship” not the typical “dating.” I wanted to create a friendship and date when I saw that “someone” was someone I could see myself marrying. As soon as the answer became a “NO” I would end the relationship.
The best thing I learned in early college was that, in a relationship, if you find that indeed this isn’t the person for you and you end the relationship the relationship was a SUCESS not a failure! Your point was to pursue something and “try them on for size” … (But please don’t think I mean this flippantly)
I only had one serious relationship in college… and after 9 months we found it wasn’t a fit. Thus a success.
Of course in my heart, the ultimate success what when I found my TRUE someone, who I will be marrying in 139 days! An we are quite different from other IHOP couples and dated for a year and a half EVEN WHEN we knew after 2 months that this was “it”.
You can read our story (from both of our sides) on mywedding.com/tylerandjoanna
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Ruth said:
oh i forgot…can someone tell me the difference between dating and courtship? i don’t know the difference…
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Hollie said:
Heeeyy, Anna! Let me find my hanky so I can wave it!
It’s been so long since I had a date that I’m pretty sure I’ve forgotten whatever opinion I may have had on the subject… But I think I agree with you, my dear.
Posted on March 31, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Anna said:
@ Ruth- You asked what I mean by “be led by desire”. I think there is a martyrdom complex among Christian singles who want to be married; God will make them marry someone they do not like just to prove their love and devotion. Let me shout this from the rooftops: GOD IS A LOVER! He made our little hearts formed around the desire for true love and intimacy and longing to be pursued because HIS HEART IS FORMED AROUND THAT DESIRE. We are simply made in His image. We long to fall in love with someone our hearts can really unfold with… we long to be cherished and to be wildly attracted to one human being for a lifetime… He made that desire because HE PLANS TO FULFILL IT!!
At this point people will often point to Hosea and say, “see? God made him marry a prostitute… doesn’t that suck?” Nope! I promise you God made Hosea’s marriage a nearly exact representation of His heart for Israel… despite her harlotry He was desperately in love with Gomer. It was real. He was jealous and chased after her with the zeal of a husband in love.
Ruth, it sounds like you’re in a good place of waiting and not freaking out
Don’t let all the people around you who are planning your entire life for you on what they are sure will make you happy (with good intentions of course) dictate your emotions or your course. God has you securely. You can trust Him!
@ Jo- Your example about the success of a breakup is amazing! So true! I had a friend recently talk about how she put so much pressure on herself wanting the first guy she dated be the guy she married that she was exceedingly depressed when her first relationship didn’t work out. You are right; if you have the relationship in Godly purity and still split ways: success!!
Posted on April 1, 2007 at 9:37 am
Molly Mosack said:
I think it’s interesting that only one guy has commented so far. Not bad, just interesting. It seems to me like there is an inordinate pressure on guys at IHOP when it comes to dating. I wonder sometimes if women put too much pressure on guys regarding the whole dating thing…or if they feel pressure for some other reason. It seems to me like women sometimes overreact, overanalyze and have strange expections of guys. Women should just let guys have the freedom to take it slow and easy. People can get to know each other without launching into dating them right away. I think sometimes men feel like they have to know if they want to date or even marry someone before they ask to spend any time with them. That doesn’t even make any sense. I think everyone needs to chill out a little bit about the whole deal. Women, if a guy asks you out, don’t assume he has already determined that he wants to marry you. That is ridiculous. If you’re interested in him, say yes. If you’re not, say no. Take it from there and just be cool.
Posted on April 1, 2007 at 12:06 pm
{Shawn} said:
@ Molly: May I point out that including myself now there are 6 guys on this thread. I have been working very hard on taxes this weekend and left the leadership of this post up to Anna. She’s done great I think.
And I agree with you that there is a lot of pressure on guys at IHOP. In fact on Christian guys in general. But if some holy hunk out there happens to like a righteous fox then he ought to go after her. Be polite, and pursue a friendship and maybe it will go to the next level.
Posted on April 1, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Molly Mosack said:
oops…don’t know how I got that count wrong. I think I thought some of the guys were girls. Just out of curiousity, who are the other two guys? I see Ben, Ryan, Matthew and you.
Anna has done great. Please don’t interpret my comment as personal. I was just offering that perhaps the reason more women than men are commneting is because men feel that pressure I mentioned. Hope I didn’t communicate something negative - that wasn’t my intent at all!
Posted on April 1, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Idhrendur said:
@Molly: I’m a male! I’ll let you get away with missing me though, cause I have weird screen-name.
Posted on April 1, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Molly Mosack said:
That was totally it. Oops.
Posted on April 1, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Sharon said:
I hear you have weddings all the time down there at IHOP. I’m actually going to one of them next month. Somebody seems to be doing something right, I guess. My parents informed me at age 18 “Oh yeah, you’re not allowed to date” and I haven’t. I’m just not sure how I’ll actually get married but I guess I’m not too worried about it yet. There’s some excellent advice on here though.
Posted on April 2, 2007 at 12:16 am
Sharon said:
And now I’m 21, maybe I should move to IHOP soon? Hmmmm…
Posted on April 2, 2007 at 12:19 am
JoAnna said:
I am not an IHOPer, just to keep the record straight. I was unaware of the modern ‘courtship’ thing. I dated like crazy, though I only dated Godly men. As soon as I would realize they were not my forever mate, I would end the relationship. The courtship thing I missed? Getting to know one another as friends first. I didn’t do that. I would just agree to go out. They would get all attached and then I would break their heart. After a while, I grew VERY sick of the drama and people being hurt, and swore off dating. I just asked God to dump me in a big hole and not let me out until my husband was there and ready. I was prepared for this to take years. I didn’t care about my being totally “boy crazy”. I could do it. Six months later, I met my (now) husband. We bumped in to each other a few times, got to arguing about freedom of worship in the church (he was wrong) and met at a bookstore to solve the debate. We left there engaged. We were engaged for one year and then married. It has been 7 1/2 years so far. I know for a fact that it was God, totally and completely. My advice? Skip my extremes. Get to REALLY KNOW him/her as friends, then go with Anna’s advice.
Posted on April 2, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Jerry James said:
I have a question. If you are single, male or female, and would like to be married, is it better to make efforts to find someone, or is it better to just lay back and wait?
Posted on April 2, 2007 at 6:53 pm
{Shawn} said:
@ Jerry: I don’t think it’s that cut and dry. It’s different for each person. I say if you’re pursuing Jesus and bump into someone that is cute and they’re pursuing Jesus and you kinda like them, then see what happens. Like Joanna said if you had a pure & Godly relationship with someone that didn’t t work out then it was a success.
But not everyone will date or court other people. Some will wait until they fall in love with a friend and then marry that person. The options and stories are endless.
Posted on April 3, 2007 at 7:45 am
Raphael said:
Well me and this girl been dating for awhile now and GOD showed us we are suppose to be together. But we moved to fast, we didnt slip up and have sex or anything its just we skip the friend thing and just jumped into a relationship. God just told us to slow down and now it feel like we dont know each other really its this ackwardness between us. But we still are plannin on getin back together but it feels crazy right now. I dont really know how to be friends with someone I really like and plus since we just jump into a relationship its hard just to be friends im not saying I dont want to be with her because I do its just hard for the both of us. So if you guys can give me advice I will truly appreciate it. GOD BLESS YOU!
Posted on April 30, 2007 at 9:40 am
Christian Real Estate Network said:
Hey Jerry, I’m 26 and was waiting for a while for something to just happen to me. I really wanted to find the right ‘one’ but was much too timid to go out and find him on my own. Turnes out i had known the ‘one’ since highschool and just didn’t know it lol. God works with all sorts of personality types, and he certainly worked a miracle for me:)
There’s so much good stuff here to comment on i hardly know which ones to pick! Chivalry…..yes PLEASE! Dating…..no thanks. Courtship……wonderful. Pressure……so much that it absolutely scares my socks off.
Posted on May 17, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Brandon said:
I was wandering….. Would God make you marry someone you really dont want to…? I mean is attraction important? Is meshing important? I have this friend and I can’t tell if God wants me to marry her or if she’s just on my mind. shes been my friend for a while but i just really don’t want to.. Am I way off? I know this sounds stupid but I am just not excited about it at all if she is my wife… is that bad?
Posted on December 1, 2007 at 9:46 pm
{Shawn} said:
@ Brandon: That is actually a totally reasonable question. But the answer is no.
Think about it from her perspective: Would it be fair to her that God make her marry a man who doesn’t desire her and is not attracted to her? That doesn’t mean you don’t like her and consider her a great person, but there is different level of attraction that goes with marriage, and woman marrying a man that didn’t desire her would be a nightmare.
When the Lord does bring someone your direction, you will have the option to choose her. It’s the choice that brings nobility to us and to our relationships.
Posted on December 2, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Brandon said:
@ Shawn Thank you so much. I never looked at it that way. for some reason I was afraid that the Lord would make me marry her when i was not attracted to her at all…. like that I mean I do love her as a friend. I want to stay in God’s will and would give in and marry her if it was in his will but I also fought on would he do that? Also.. I c you are in Kansas City.. you guys are going to get hit with a HUge Revival in your city. thousands of young people are coming your way…. http://www.louengle.com pretty cool stuff. and thank you again… feel free to write another response to what I wrote above… oh nice to meet.. I brandon 27. Clt. Nc……
Posted on December 2, 2007 at 4:28 pm
{Shawn} said:
@ Brandon: Hey, it’s funny you say that. I work with the ministry that Lou Engle is with, and is putting on the onething conference and the Call.
It’s the International House of Prayer.
Posted on December 2, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Brandon said:
i LOVE God’s sense of humor… Bless you bro…. I go to MorningStar Fellowship here in Charlotte.. Lou has done some stuff with Rick Joyner… small world…. how about after I wrote this I prayerd some more on the wife thing and right before i went to bed I got a FWD text saying “God is going to shift things around for you tonight and let things work in your favor.” think I could take that as a word? It was good timing at least.. I love this blog thing btw.
Posted on December 2, 2007 at 10:39 pm